I watched a video this morning that gets to the core in a lot of ways with the emerging church movement. In this video you will see how little they care for orthodox Christian beliefs. According to this group, if you are a conservative Christian then you are only concerned with power and money and basically not a "real" Christian. Jesus is a liberal socialist who only cares about the issues of the times, which is love, peace and environmental issues, and not really about things eternal.
I will also warn you that they like to use swear words to talk about their deep commitment to Christ and their new movement. Make sure young children are not listening if you decide to watch this 11 minute video.
3 comments:
Very interesting video. I get the feeling that all of these people were once either a part of a conservative Christian church or liberal unbelievers.
If you believed that the Holy Bible doesn't address the issues of today then wouldn't you have to also believe that God's Word isn't sufficient and eternal? and imperfect?
I'm sure there would be some kind of cyclic explaination this church's pastor would have to this question that also won't actually explain anything.
Jeremie Bair
(Disclaimer, perhaps I watched a different video, because in the blog you mention an 11 minute film and this one below is 5:23)
By swear words, did you mean "piss?" Personally I wouldn't find this language so offensive that it would overshadow the message.
I once heard singer Derek Webb, formerly of Caedmon's Call, say these words, following a word expressing his belief that modern Christians are called to turn their attention to our brothers and sisters in Africa, as Africa contains the highest concentration of the poorest people in the world, and we are called to love our neighbors, which include them (censored as this seems to be a major concern on this blog):
"The truth is, most Christians today don't give a s--- about Africans. And the sad truth is, most of us here are more offended by that word than by the fact that we don't care about Africans."
I think Jesus did in fact care about things eternal. I don't, however, think his death and resurrection were the end all be all of his time on earth. I think his teachings about life are not only relevant but a major part of what it means to be saved. We are not waiting for the coming of the Kingdom, we are priveleged enough to be a part of ushering that Kingdom in. Jesus began that work, and now we are the Body of Christ on earth. I can't recall which letter, but Paul responded to a church struggling with believers who said, paraphrased, "Why should be continue to work if Christ is returning?" A similar truth applies here. We can't raise things eternal so high that the here and now are inconsequential. Why would Christ not be concerned with things like peace, racism and the environment? Fuel emissions were not a big issue back then, but they certainly are now.
I think that's what the church in this video is trying to do. In some ways, you may see them as being too liberal, but I think they probably see this as necessary to bring about change. Perhaps they are being disrespectful of Church tradition (but remember, tradition is often not scripturally based at all) and interpret scripture differently than you, but that doesn't mean they value scripture any less than you.
Finally, I heard no mention of socialism in the video, though I can certainly see the connection between that sort of system and the early church. In Acts 2 it clearly states that they sold everything they had and held all in common, and everyone's needs were met.
These are my initial thoughts in watching the video there, though perhaps you were referring to a different one. I'd like to continue this conversation though as I keep browsing your blog.
-In Christ,
Tyler Chick
Tyler,
I like that you are trying to work through this and I hope you continue to think and utilize Scripture as your premise and not other authors, as I try to do.
First, you label me a modern by my writing when you are far from your assumption. I am not modern, see our last posting comments for what I say I am.
To the swearing end, does this not fly in the face when the Bible tells us not to use foul language? Ephesians 5:4, "Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving." If the Bible says not to do then do not do it. Otherwise just rationalizing sin.
I never said the resurrection was the end of His time on earth, but it was for the time being, and that is why He sent the Holy Spirit to the apostles in Acts. Again, making assumptions, but a right one this time. It did not however end His influence.
People always bring up places like Africa as an example. This is funny to me because those same people have not been there nor given extensively to the causes they use to make their arguments. Before you go using it, I ask you what have you contributed to Africa besides signing up on facebook or other documents. I have been to India and worked in villages and taught in seminaries on my own money. I donate to those causes and write for their support, as you could read from my India blogs. Actually, what you call "modern" Christians have done far more for the poorer countries then emergent christians, but that is another blog.
What is more important, temporal food or eternal food? What happens if you feed their stomach and they die anyway without hearing the salvation of Christ?
Christ is returning whether you or I work or not. It is arrogance to think we can do anything outside of what the Holy Spirit does through us. We do not bring Christ back by making this world better. He comes back when the Father deams it. It gives you and I power of God otherwise. This is another problem with emergent thinking. They want to give themselves too much credit and make it about them. That is what the "social" gospel is about in my personal opinion.
Secondly, we tell people because Christ commanded. Read the last thing Christ commanded in Matthew 28:16-20. Nothing about food there. Though I think we are to help our brothers and sisters in need, which is what was done in Acts. I hate to inform you, but they sold everything to help believers in Christ and not just anyone. It was for the church. Meaning they were saved first, and it was more important to preach Christ then to give food. Christ talked about this often.
Let me know when you go to Africa and feed the poor or sell all you have to give the money to be used to feed them, and I will definitely brag about it to everyone as an example. Unfortunately, I am guessing most of the money you give to most of the organizations will use it to buy stamps, pay for plain tickets, and salaries and then it will be used for rice if the rice makes it past the military that steals a lot of the food, thus still leaving them hungry a lot of the time and still not saved.
It is far more important for someone to have eternal security then to have temporal food. Eternal hell with a full stomach is still hell.
Christ and the apostles never earned the right to be heard. That is what got them killed, was preaching Christ when no one wanted to hear it. That argument is never found in the Bible.
Bringing about change by utilizing sin never works. Whether it is the emergent church using foul language, denying Scripture, or XXX Church using a six foot blow up penis to attract people. These give false realities of following Christ.
It is not easy to be a Christian in the real sense. It is not about modern, post-modern, conservative, liberal, emergent, baptist, presbyterian or whatever. It is about beind a disciple of Christ and following Him through what the infallible, inerrant in what it teaches, Scripture.
Your kingdom view needs a little work, because all end times believers believe that there is a kingdom now, and a kingdom to come. Once Christ entered our world the kingdom came, but it has not fully come yet. If you are premill, as I am, you believe that there is also a 1000 year literal kindom yet to be.
None of this excuses Christians not helping their brothers in need. Liberals make a mistake by focusing on social issues and not Salvation through Christ as Lord. Conservatives make a mistake by focusing on moral issues instead of Salvation through Christ as Lord.
But neither must ever give up the tenets of the faith to go after those purposes, and unfortunately the "liberal" camp does this far more then the "conservative."
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